well, the problem is that part of Islam *is* a peaceful religion....or at least it's practiced by people that aren't completely murderous, mysoginistic asshats. i haven't read the Koran since high school so i'm not versed enough to really argue if it's the teachings themselves or the particular extremist interpretations. from what i remember, it's not unlike the Bible, where fundamentalists choose to interpret the writings absolutely literally even though, at least to me, it's clearly metaphoric and completely contradictory.
everything i've read of Islam, when i studied it, does not support this behavior and i can't understand how Muslims that do not follow Sharia are allowing their religion to be hijacked, and are tolerating its use as a weapon of global conflict. Militant Islam makes Communism and Nazism look like bubble gum. they are destabilizing the world from the inside and most of the world is letting them.
well, the problem is that part of Islam *is* a peaceful religion....or at least it's practiced by people that aren't completely murderous, mysoginistic asshats. i haven't read the Koran since high school so i'm not versed enough to really argue if it's the teachings themselves or the particular extremist interpretations.
it's that the koran's translations don't tell the whole truth. If you talk to people from the middle east, they laugh because they say that the koran that we read in english, for example as part of classes, is not the same koran that is practiced in the middle east because the parts that we might find offensive are removed from the koran. That's why middle eastern muslims laugh at muslims that converted in the US - like the nation of islam - because they're not practicing the real islam.
Oddly enough, from the very quarter of my I this almost looks like... some kind of mass hysteria or something. It's like 'Joseph on the street' German during Kristallnacht doing wrong to a friend or neighbor... or neighbors in Sarajevo whose children played together suddenly becoming murderous. Do the Moslems in Africa really wish to kill Christians? Or is it something where they have always disliked those they do not agree with and are simply taking advantage of this mob mentality? I know these are rhetorical questions but it is troubling.
Seems like now be a good time to approach moderate Muslim clerics, convene some kind of counsel and try to figure out exactly what it is we are missing in our understanding. There must be something there that turns the ultraconservative to violence, where in other religions there is no violence, by ultraconservatives. Although we have all seen what are some fundamentalists tend to get violent. This has happened in the Israeli population, the Sikh population, and obviously many others. Just doesn't seem to be on a global scale for them.
And this is where some of my Christian literalist friends began to whisper about Armageddon.
Some people seem to have a problem with the concept of ongoing investigation. Indictments are the domain of judges; it's not for politicians or community leaders to decide if a crime was hate-related or not. Last I heard, we indicted people on evidence, not the call of the street. That the suspects happen to be sadistic psychopaths doesn't change this.
I have a rather problematic relationship with the concept of hate crimes. Classical penal law punishes actions, not intentions. (Here: kidnapping, torture, barbarian acts and murder -- quite enough to secure our harshest sentence.) When you start to prosecute people for their thoughts, it can only go downhill. There aren't as many steps as you'd think between accusing people of hate crimes and accusing people of political crimes. Slippery slope.
Sorry, I wasn't reacting to your comment, but to the blog post you linked to. You don't condemn people for being anti-semite, just like you don't condemn them for making fun of a religious figure. You condemn them for killing and kidnapping and torturing.
You condemn them for killing and kidnapping and torturing.
aye, in a prosecutorial sense. although i don't think anyone should separate out the motives as inconsequential, however. that info is germaine in a larger causal sense, but the notion of prosecuting for a "hate" crime is one that i have some issues with for pretty much the reasons you've said.
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sforzinda
no subject
Date: 2006-02-20 02:17 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-02-20 02:35 am (UTC)everything i've read of Islam, when i studied it, does not support this behavior and i can't understand how Muslims that do not follow Sharia are allowing their religion to be hijacked, and are tolerating its use as a weapon of global conflict. Militant Islam makes Communism and Nazism look like bubble gum. they are destabilizing the world from the inside and most of the world is letting them.
/rant
no subject
Date: 2006-02-20 03:04 am (UTC)it's that the koran's translations don't tell the whole truth. If you talk to people from the middle east, they laugh because they say that the koran that we read in english, for example as part of classes, is not the same koran that is practiced in the middle east because the parts that we might find offensive are removed from the koran. That's why middle eastern muslims laugh at muslims that converted in the US - like the nation of islam - because they're not practicing the real islam.
no subject
Date: 2006-02-20 04:13 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-02-20 07:23 pm (UTC)Seems like now be a good time to approach moderate Muslim clerics, convene some kind of counsel and try to figure out exactly what it is we are missing in our understanding. There must be something there that turns the ultraconservative to violence, where in other religions there is no violence, by ultraconservatives. Although we have all seen what are some fundamentalists tend to get violent. This has happened in the Israeli population, the Sikh population, and obviously many others. Just doesn't seem to be on a global scale for them.
And this is where some of my Christian literalist friends began to whisper about Armageddon.
no subject
Date: 2006-02-20 11:57 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-02-21 12:33 pm (UTC)http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-kidnap21feb21,0,5054637.story?coll=la-home-headlines
I have a rather problematic relationship with the concept of hate crimes. Classical penal law punishes actions, not intentions. (Here: kidnapping, torture, barbarian acts and murder -- quite enough to secure our harshest sentence.) When you start to prosecute people for their thoughts, it can only go downhill. There aren't as many steps as you'd think between accusing people of hate crimes and accusing people of political crimes. Slippery slope.
M, posting chez fialka
no subject
Date: 2006-02-21 12:55 pm (UTC)and give hugs to fi from me.
no subject
Date: 2006-02-21 02:13 pm (UTC)Will pass on your hugs.
no subject
Date: 2006-02-22 02:51 am (UTC)aye, in a prosecutorial sense. although i don't think anyone should separate out the motives as inconsequential, however. that info is germaine in a larger causal sense, but the notion of prosecuting for a "hate" crime is one that i have some issues with for pretty much the reasons you've said.
Will pass on your hugs.
:::smiles:::