(no subject)

[somedaybitch]

there is nothing more heartbreaking than a Time Lord running out of time.

he kept forgetting the time displacement, and in his joy at her gift to him of his freedom, and his to her of taking her with him, he forgot again.

so much brilliantly subtle characterization: Rose's warning, and her taking a moment to stay when Reinette heard the screams and her own voice, and Reinette's acknowledging so sweetly and discreetly the bond they both share with the Doctor in turn; Rose just staring at the broken mirror; the introduction of Louis to the Doctor...heh; the understanding and kindness from Louis to the Doctor at the end, the wish to hear Reinette's words and yet knowing that they aren't meant for him and not begruding the Doctor that last part of her; Rose asking if he's okay, genuinely worried for him and how much she knows he's hurting, and Mickey using a tour as a dodge to give the Doctor privacy.

ouch, ouch, ouch, with a side of ouch and some ouch for dessert.

i'm surprised, although probably not really, at so many saying they thought the plot was weak. i thought it was excellent. and at so many that argue he didn't have "time" to fall in love with her, to which i'd remind them of the time distortion. it's a time show about a time lord; time is how they choose to weave it, and here they did it organically from the beginning, showing Reinette as a girl, twice, but older by months, and showing the ship from the beginning, broken, cobbled repairs, scavanged (gahh) parts.

and i love that the ep was both classic Who - the horse was bloody brilliant - and classic Moffet, funny, bittersweet and snarky.

stupid emo show making me cry.

Comments

[gingerwood.livejournal.com]

I don't have any problem with the doctor falling for Reinette, he usually bonds quickly with people that he likes. Especially brave/intellegent/spunky women. I do have problems with his relying on the fireplace door to keep his promise. That thing has always re-deposited him months or years later than the previous visit. The doctor doesn't MAKE mistakes like that, not when it's important.

[somedaybitch.livejournal.com]

I do have problems with his relying on the fireplace door to keep his promise. That thing has always re-deposited him months or years later than the previous visit. The doctor doesn't MAKE mistakes like that, not when it's important.

and i think that he does, witness Father's Day. he makes all kinds of mistakes when it's important. in this particular case, i think it was simply the overwhelming joy of not being stuck, him being able to take her with and him simply not thinking. he's a Time Lord, not perfect...which is actually what i love so much about him. ymmvoc, but i see him as hugely flawed.

[somedaybitch.livejournal.com]

also, re the fireplace, it was the only portal left, and as he'd already explained to Mickey, they couldn't use the Tardis because they'd become part of that timeline. ideally of course, he would have simply taken her with, and yet, what if it didn't work? he wasn't going to risk her life in case they were both wrong.

[gingerwood.livejournal.com]

The way I understood it, was that taking the Tardis to France risked having them be in twice in one time (bad idea). Once all the temperal windows were shut down, it should have been perfectly safe for them to show up after the last time the doctor left. At least, that was my read on the matter. Shrug.

[somedaybitch.livejournal.com]

i don't doubt that one could easily argue a bunch of stuff validating his use of the Tardis. although i think just as valid a counterargument could be made that, given the fireplace's still potentially working, *all* the temporal windows were *not* closed, and thus they were still part of the timeline.

my point is simply that, given the way the scene was played, i don't see it as a plot hole. he expected to be stuck there. he made the decision knowing that. in an incredibly generous act on her part she shared her secret. he got lucky when the wiring was loose but he still had no way of knowing for sure that it would work. that's, as i see it, the reason he didn't immediately take her with him.

[gingerwood.livejournal.com]

In fathers day, the mistakes he made were centered around trusting Rose to do as he said, without sufficiently explaining what would happen if she didn't (at least the first time, the bit with the baby I tend to pin on Jackie, if someone shoves a baby at you, it's sheer spinal reflex to grab it).

When he went back for R, it looked to me like he fully expected it to only be a moment later, dispite all previous experience.

[somedaybitch.livejournal.com]

the mistakes he made were centered around trusting Rose

yes. and he shouldn't have made such a mistake. he's a 900 year old Time Lord and she isn't. but he did something spur of the moment, as a kindness, and it bit him in the ass and nearly destroyed the world.

When he went back for R, it looked to me like he fully expected it to only be a moment later, dispite all previous experience.

yes. i saw it that way as well, which is exactly what i loved about the scene and what made it so much more poignant. they spoke through the fire, which seems to be the only time sync, and then he walked away. in the immediate excitement and his joy, he blew it, and he blew it huge.

as for all the windows being closed, they weren't. the fireplace was still open, so they were still part of the timeline.

[gingerwood.livejournal.com]

yes. and he shouldn't have made such a mistake. he's a 900 year old Time Lord and she isn't

Now, I see that as a typical mistake for him to make, even back in the old series. He's always taking the risk that people will do the right thing, rather than the selfish thing. Sometimes he wins, sometimes he loses, and often times it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever for him to runs such a risk. He does it anyway, and I see it as his tragic character flaw.

as for all the windows being closed, they weren't. the fireplace was still open, so they were still part of the timeline.

I guess that I was assuming that it would be relatively easy for him to shut down the fireplace, and make the situation Tardis-safe.

and then he walked away. in the immediate excitement and his joy, he blew it, and he blew it huge.

I think that if he had realized what he had done as he was turning away, or even as he headed back towards the fireplace, I would have bought it. As it was he's dealing with a piece of temperal machinary that's been malfunctioning in a very consistant manner all episode. He has just remarked on it before he headed through and then he completely forgets about it until he's there and back again. That is the mistake that I'm having a hard time with. He's not dealing with irratic human/sentient behavior, but with a time machine. IMHO, he doesn't make mistakes when dealing with temperal machinary, at least not when it's important.

[somedaybitch.livejournal.com]

Now, I see that as a typical mistake for him to make, even back in the old series.

yes. absolutely, and that's my point. he makes HUGE mistakes, and he does so rather routinely.

I guess that I was assuming that it would be relatively easy for him to shut down the fireplace, and make the situation Tardis-safe.


why shut down the fireplace when he thought he'd just fixed it?

I think that if he had realized what he had done as he was turning away, or even as he headed back towards the fireplace, I would have bought it. As it was he's dealing with a piece of temperal machinary that's been malfunctioning in a very consistant manner all episode.....He's not dealing with irratic human/sentient behavior, but with a time machine.

right, and he thought he just fixed it.

IMHO, he doesn't make mistakes when dealing with temperal machinary, at least not when it's important.

he didn't think he *had* made a mistake. and honestly, he screws up with temporal machinery all the time as well. he routinely blows his target by hundreds of years.

[gingerwood.livejournal.com]

I never meant that he never made mistakes, only that he tended to make some kinds and not others. And yes, when there's nothing important (to him) at stake, he'll wind up god-knows-where. I've got a theory that the Tardis tends to navigate based more on his subconsious desires than what he plugs into the counsul. But when it's really important, a life-or-death/mass distruction, sort of situation he'll land on a dime, correct to the millisecond.

I'm going to have to go back and re-watch that scene (I've only seen it once), but I got the impression that the fireplace was off-line and he merely reactivated it rather than fixing the way it seemed to be stuck on fast-forward when not actively in use.

[somedaybitch.livejournal.com]

the fireplace was the original from her room, where he first commented when she was a child that it had faulty wiring. as an adult, Reinette had had it moved and re-assembled down to the detail. that left it off-line, says the Doctor in the scene, and then he starts poking at it and fixes, and comments on, the faulty wiring again. then he asks her to wish him luck and through he goes.