(no subject)

[somedaybitch]

refutation, with proof, that the spitting-on-returning-vets meme, isn't, in fact, a meme.

my paternal grandfather was a double agent for the Allies. he was murdered by the Nazis in a hotel in Washington DC.

my maternal grandfather served. my brother served. my best friend from college had served - teaching fighter pilots how to fly - retired, and was flying commercial for United when two planes hit the World Trade Center. he re-enlisted, and just got back from Iraq a few months ago.

i am first generation. my family are refugee immigrants on both sides. this country took them in.

someone spits on a veteran or active duty soldier in front of me and it will be an action they will deeply regret.

i respect the opposition to war, this one or any other. everyone, even those supporting this war, or any other, should be, on some fundamental level in opposition to war, else it becomes too easy an action to resort to. but our military is volunteer. those men and women willingly choose to take bullets for us, and total strangers, because they believe it is the right thing to do. the very least we can do is show them the respect their raw courage demands.

protest the war all you want. hell, it's Constitutionally guaranteed and i'm proud that the guarantee exists. but that guarantee exists because generations of soldiers fought, and died, to preserve it for you. do the courtesy of keeping that in mind.

Comments

[kernezelda]

I didn't know that people were claiming the deep antipathy toward the Vietnam war wasn't expressed like this. Revisionist history isn't just whitewashing, it's lying to ourselves.

My father and several of his brothers, my mother's brother, sister and father all served in the military. I can think of few things less worth admiration than choosing to serve one's country as a soldier.

[somedaybitch.livejournal.com]

Revisionist history isn't just whitewashing, it's lying to ourselves.

and that's what bugs about it. the whitewash is bad enough but the lying is worse. we aren't perfect, and one of our strengths is our ability to reinvent ourselves. how can do that, though, if we hide our mistakes?

[vee-fic.livejournal.com]

I feel like I am the designated wet blanket on your flist. If you'll read the reports in your link, you will find that they all suffer from the same problem, and it's the problem already described in the Slate article he links to: almost every report of the incident is described much later than it could have happened.

Memory isn't a flash camera; people's memories change. The reason contemporary reports are the only ones we can trust as evidence is that, once something becomes a meme, it inserts itself into memories even if it could not have happened.

I seriously doubt that a veteran was "never" spat upon, or insulted in some other way to his face, upon return from Vietnam. Never is a pretty big word. (I would posit, in fact, that the meme came about to simplify and make concrete the sensation "I was made unwelcome" into an experience everyone agrees is rude and uncalled-for.) Still -- it seems to be reported so widely, as if there were an Organized Spitting Brigade waiting in every receiving line. It's wise to be a little skeptical, when somebody is pushing the outrage button.

I do wonder why this is a story right now, when there are, in fact, Organized Cheering Brigades welcoming home soldiers when they arrive in airports. What is going on today that gives a 30-year-old story legs, when the story from that period runs contrary to the story of today? It makes me a little skeptical of the motivations behind the story: do the people spreading it really care about the soldiers in question, or are they using those soldiers as a baseball bat to attack the democratic party? And if the latter, how is that respectful to or helpful to those soldiers?

[wishkey.livejournal.com]

Strange but true: I am proud of everyone who lays it on the line for us, so we have the (cringe) right to call them names, and, possibly, (shudder) spit on them, because in this country, we value that freedom. It seems wrong, but that is the way it works. And those soldiers know it, too.

My father served as a marine in WWII in the Pacific, and he never talks about it. EVER. He came back with what they then called "shell shock." War ruins a person in ways we can't imagine.

I don't like my father, and we disagree on just about everything, but I am proud he defended his country. It's the one thing about him I am proud of. he, and countless unknown others, made my life possible, and made it possible for all my friends' lives, and for their lives to be as good as possible.

Thanks so much for posting this.

[itsazoo.livejournal.com]

When my sis and I flew out of STL for London 2 years ago, a single soldier came through on leave. Women (mom, girlfriend, sis) were waiting for him and he was grinning from ear to ear. Sis and I cheered, whistled and applauded (we were the only ones). He grinned even wider and said "thank you". Now that I'm not working, I've volunteered to attend funerals for vets who have no one to go other than the other vets who arranged the funeral.

ALL veterans should be thanked for their service, no matter how an individual feels about the conflict. That's how I feel.

[somedaybitch.livejournal.com]

When my sis and I flew out of STL for London 2 years ago, a single soldier came through on leave. Women (mom, girlfriend, sis) were waiting for him and he was grinning from ear to ear. Sis and I cheered, whistled and applauded (we were the only ones).

thank you. truly.

[arthurfrdent.livejournal.com]

regardless if it has or hasn't happened, or who remembers what, the argument is immaterial. spitting on a soldier isn't disagreeing with the war, it is disrespect of that individual. dragging a backhoe through all of this to prove or disprove is to my mind a second round of disrespect. What difference does it make, in fact, if one guy or another can prove that he got spit on? At top strength there were 500,000, and about 2.6 million served over time... That means that there were that many chances that the story is true. On the other hand, I haven't heard that this was happening to the vast majority of vets, so the percentages are likely low.

It is the perception that causes the heartburn on both sides. This is a magnification of both news reporting and the natural spread of stories.

It is likely the spitting was true, and should not have happened. It is also likely it was uncommon, but it still shouldn't have happened. If it is happening now, it is a disgrace. Disagreeing with public policy shouldn't normally involve spitting on the person who carries that policy out...

[somedaybitch.livejournal.com]

spitting on a soldier isn't disagreeing with the war, it is disrespect of that individual.

technically, yes, but practically, and by intent, no. it's very much disagreeing with the war.

What difference does it make, in fact, if one guy or another can prove that he got spit on?

because the Left are calling those soldiers liars. it makes all the difference in the world.

[arthurfrdent.livejournal.com]

you say practically and by intent... and I would submit that while they may believe that, it would be handy if anyone with stature in their movement would tell them exactly how that destroys their cause...

the point I was making is that the revisionists are never going to accept ANY proof provided. even if you had some footage showing it, they would probably say that it was only one instance, or they might even accuse you of faking the footage. They have already mde up their minds that it didn't happen. I would assume that if footage could be found, then a scathing rebuttal could happen. Open minded people would listen to that, but ultimately, as you pointed out, anti-war people that are willing to denigrate an individual to prove a point simply don't care about an individual. They are willing to go to any length to rationalize their actions.