(no subject)

[somedaybitch]

yeah, they aren't *really* trying to bring down Western Civilization. that's just us making excuses.

A 1991 strategy paper for the Brotherhood, often referred to as the Ikhwan in Arabic, found in the Virginia home of an unindicted co-conspirator in the case, describes the group's U.S. goals, referred to as a "civilization-jihadist process."

"The Ikhwan must understand that their work in America is a kind of grand jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and sabotaging its miserable house by their hands and the hands of the believers so that it is eliminated and God's religion is made victorious over all other religions," it states. This process requires a "mastery of the art of 'coalitions,' the art of 'absorption' and the principles of 'cooperation.' "

and there's this:

"The fundamental thing underlying the Brotherhood ideology is the need to establish the caliphate," or the spread of Islamic law, Mr. Farah said. "That's what the documents show: This was a structured, organized movement here."

The Muslim Brotherhood is the parent organization of Hamas, formed in 1987 in the Palestinian territories to combat Israeli occupation. The Brotherhood remains active in many parts of the world, dedicated to increasing fundamentalist Islamic influence. A key goal is to place nations under Shariah.

emphasis mine

also: Michael Totten has a long dispatch on the turnaround in Anbar Province.

Comments

[arthurfrdent.livejournal.com]

so I wonder how much fire is in their hearts because the western world simply dismisses them, as if they were children. when you take responsibility from a group, claim that they have a lack of understanding of you, and then try to help them with that... you marginalize their concerns, and frame everything in terms of yourself. That probably makes them more angry than when we show up with an army. The army is a badge of respect, at least. I think an aweful lot of people in this country don't understand the possibility that these islamists simply want us gone. They don't want power over us, really. That is why they aren't so concerned with dying for it. Their reward is not a function of this world. This blithe dismissal, comes from both sides of this conflict. The assumption that they WANT democracy is one, that we should simply leave them alone because they are backwards poity heads anyway is the other.

one interesting thing that you see often in Sci-Fi writing is the idea that technology interchange with the barberous is dangerous. You give them the ability to come against you with your own weapons, but without your understandings or your mindset. Civilizations like that seem to fall, because the common understandings that people count on aren't there. Rome vs. the Goths. Complicated by the fact that a whole sector of their religion/civilization IS modern...

blah/carping from the side...

[somedaybitch.livejournal.com]

I think an aweful lot of people in this country don't understand the possibility that these islamists simply want us gone. They don't want power over us, really. That is why they aren't so concerned with dying for it. Their reward is not a function of this world.

if by "islamists" you mean islamofascists - as in, the suicide bombers, the extremists, the guys that took out the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, AQI...those guys - then i would disagree strongly. they want a global caliphate and they want it yesterday. they're very upfront with their goals, yet no one believes them and much of the world seeks to make excuses for them. they want us dhimmi or dead.

[arthurfrdent.livejournal.com]

that is to say, yeah they want a caliphate, but they don't strive for our conversion... if some convert, that's OK, but that isn't the base of it. If they get rid of all of us, well then caliphate. The reward for that is heaven after. I don't really look at them as fascists, because they aren't nationalists at all or state based. Theocracy would be the term I would use, because even when they use some sort of republican system like Iran, it is still run by Imams...

but yeah, then I would fall to splitting hairs... the power of wanting us gone is important though. Western thought seeks a way to co-opt their wish to rule. "We want to find a way to compromise with theses guys." I'm sure they think that's nice, but they aren't going to compromise, because what they want is NOTHING like what we want. That was the point I was really heading for... as you have said it dhimmi or dead... but I don't think dhimmi is their eventual goal. World domination really doesn't have space for it...

That is why Iranians having a nuke is much scarier than NK having one... Kim is way out there, and may or not. I think Iranians WOULD eventually use them.

[somedaybitch.livejournal.com]

but I don't think dhimmi is their eventual goal. World domination really doesn't have space for it...

no, it doesn't. which is what makes them so very dangerous, and saying otherwise is dreadfully naive.