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[somedaybitch]

was having a discussion at queenofthorns' place, related to comments re Kara and Anders, what that may or may not imply about her feelings for Lee, etc. she [qot] asked not to continue the conversation because it was one of the things that she didn't like about the ep and she wanted to focus on the stuff she did. fair enough. something she said in her comments has been gnawing at me though, and i'm going to address it here. because, you know, i can.


so i said: he will take her as he finds her, without judgement or prejudice or preconception. i was referring to why i thought Kara would/could/might be drawn to Anders.

she said: Wow, this Anders fella sounds pretty amazing from this description... And I don't really see Kara as "utterly broken" but that's a discussion for another time.

i think she missed my point. or misunderstood what i wrote. i didn't mean to imply that Anders, a character we've seen very little of actually, is some kind of uber!guy. i meant that, simply by virtue of him not knowing Kara, he is not going to have prejudice or preconception or judgement about who she is because? he.doesn't.know.her. literally, doesn't know her. that means his impressions of her are going to be based solely upon what.she.presents. that's it.

he doesn't know she frakked the Vice President because she can't have Lee. he doesn't know that she's responsible for Zak's death. he doesn't know who Zak is. he doesn't know that she left to find the Arrow. he doesn't know about Lee. about her time in hack. about her reputation. about her temper. about her drinking and card playing and whatever. he knows nothing.

he knows nothing but what she tells him, or he observes for himself.

that simple fact makes his affection, if he chooses to give it, worth infinitely more in terms of her self-esteem as it is now. would Lee's, given *with* his knowledge of her, ultimately mean more? sure, if she accepts it. but there's the rub. she has to believe that she is worth loving. sometimes, a stranger can give you that.

good storytelling is equal parts the journey as much as the destination. the beauty is in the travelling. but then, i'm not one of those folks who gets a book and goes right to the back to see how it ends. that just makes you impatient, blinds you to the path because all you see is the end game. what's the point then, if all you want is to cut to the chase? go watch a Bruckheimer film. or what's the point then, if all you care about is the particular character interaction that you think is important, the relationships that you think should be happening. go write your own story. me? i'm interested in watching the ones that i'm not telling, because i'm not telling them, because it's someone else's interpretations of the world, of people, of the things that make us human.

Comments

[thevaliumsofalj.livejournal.com]

that simple fact makes his affection, if he chooses to give it, worth infinitely more in terms of her self-esteem as it is now. would Lee's, given *with* his knowledge of her, ultimately mean more? sure, if she accepts it. but there's the rub. she has to believe that she is worth loving. sometimes, a stranger can give you that.

Even though I'm spoiled, I'm gonna do my best to push that knowledge aside here. the emphasis in the quote is mine, I think the thing that clinches it, when it comes to Kara, is that she has to believe that she's worth loving, and stranger or not, she has to let her shields down in order to accept that.

And, like you said, we don't even know Anders, except to know that he's a pyramid player and the leader of this band of people still living. That's it - he may or may not be a player (in terms of women). He may be a good guy, or he may not be. We don't know what his preconceptions are about women (especially Viper pilots) in the military. We haven't really been given a chance to figure out what he brings to the table.

In light of that, could it be easier for her to accept affection from him? possibly, but at the same time, she could say, "You don't know the real me," and push him away, because those feelings of worthlessness seem to be so deeply ingrained. She's just pulled herself back together, just really come back to herself post the whole sleeping with baltar, fight with lee, betrayal by adama, fight with six, betrayal by sharon, finding helo and the stop at her apartment. She may not be willing to put her newly restored shields back down to accept anything emotionally from anybody. Or she may - it'll be fun to see where they take us. What I love about this particular storyline is that it will give us better insight into her.

the thing that I love about this show is that they do their best to make the journey worth it - and even if we've been spoiled by the script, we may be totally surprised, because it doesn't necessarily work out that way.

and I totally agree with what you said over at qot's lj. Although, I'm a huge L/K shipper, those two are and would be a mess together in a relationship right now and it would be a disaster for them to be together, circumstances of being in the military together aside. There's too much crap for them to work through as individuals right now. The psych student in me has totally ground out the hopeless romantic + this show is too realistic to make it any other way.

[somedaybitch.livejournal.com]

i suppose i should have said that i offer these thoughts spoiled as to the outcome. oops.

Although, I'm a huge L/K shipper, those two are and would be a mess together in a relationship right now and it would be a disaster for them to be together, circumstances of being in the military together aside. There's too much crap for them to work through as individuals right now.

i'm a total L/K shipper, BUT, i also won't get nutted up if they aren't together. why? 'snot my story. i hope they get together, because they are clearly so stupidly in love, but i also don't want that to be too easy, you know? i don't want it to feel like a cave.

first rule of drama...find out what the audience wants and then don't give it to them. i got no problems with that when it's plausibly done. i don't want it to be forced in *either* direction.

The psych student in me has totally ground out the hopeless romantic + this show is too realistic to make it any other way.

stupid typos

[somedaybitch.livejournal.com]

The psych student in me has totally ground out the hopeless romantic + this show is too realistic to make it any other way.

nothing should ground out the hopeless romantic. love is what makes us human. understanding how the mind works makes it easier.

Re: stupid typos

[thevaliumsofalj.livejournal.com]

I shouldn't say it's ground her out. it would be better for me to say that that the happily ever after of my bedtime stories is what I call the hopeless romantic, and as a grown-up, I've figured out love's a lot more complicated than that - although deep in my heart, i think wishful thoughts.

Re: stupid typos

[somedaybitch.livejournal.com]

the effortless happily ever after is a hallucination, and all that does is trip couples up in bullshit preconceptions and expectations.

love, though, is an amazingly groovy thing, and always worth it...no matter how long you have it for.

[jaydk.livejournal.com]

Coming in from galactica news...

I'm a little puzzled by the statement that the love of a stranger who doesn't know Kara in any way but superficially would boost her self-esteem. Kara seems liked and popular among the Galactica crew for what they see on the surface -- her skills, her snark, her general attitude. It doesn't seem to be making a difference in her tendency to write herself off as a screw-up. The people who really seem to matter to her -- Adama, Lee, even Helo -- are the people who do know her beyond the superficial, and care about her anyway.

Like you, I want the storytellers to tell the story as they see it. However, I must say that the Caprica stuff is coming off as a bit lame compared to the rest of the show IMO. I hope it's going somewhere, because Starbuck playing ball doesn't exact rank up there with the intense drama going on elsewhere, and it actually makes her and Helo look a bit lame.

[thevaliumsofalj.livejournal.com]

I hope it's going somewhere, because Starbuck playing ball doesn't exact rank up there with the intense drama going on elsewhere, and it actually makes her and Helo look a bit lame.

yes, but the question becomes why was Starbuck playing ball? and the answer to that is that she's a type A personality who doesn't value herself for herself. She only values herself for her skills, whether it's being a Viper pilot or a strategist, or in this case a pyramid player. She goes about proving herself to people to gain their respect and she probably thought that the way to gain respect within this group is to kick the ass of the captain of the pyramid game at pyramid. Same thing on Galactica - some say she's a screw-up, but she's known for her skills as a pilot, a strategist, and an instructor - that's why people listen to her.

So, why did she go about playing ball with this guy? Because she wants to gain his respect, probably to feel him out (because you really get to know somebody when you are their opponent), and because it'll gain her the ability to use that group of survivors in the future to help get them off the planet, if they trust her.

[jaydk.livejournal.com]

My impression of the scene was slightly different and more visceral. I agree that Starbuck wanted to make an impression on the guy, but I thought it was a lot less about strategizing and a lot more about simply posturing for the sake of posturing -- I think Starbuck has a need to be the alpha, especially in new situations. A person or group she dominates in whatever manner is a person or group she controls. Starbuck challenges authority, in whatever form, because IMO she essentially trusts only herself and her skills. Adama is the only leadership we've seen her really accept without a fight. And of course there was the element of flirtation in the scene as well. A lot of that could be strategic I suppose -- make an impression, get this guy on their side -- but I didn't really read it into Kara's behavior.

But the whole thing -- not just the playing ball scene, but the Starbuck and Helo on Caprica storyline at this point -- is rubbing me the wrong way. What the heck are they doing wandering the countryside without a plan and playing a game of pyramid? Even besides the mission to get the Arrow of Apollo to the President, they both now *know* that there's a Cylon agent stationed in the heart of Galactica who might take it in her head to oh, say, shoot the Commander or something like that. Where is their desperate urgency to get home and prevent disaster? Somewhere in between listening to music at Starbuck's place and hanging out on the pyramid court, it seems to have been lost.

[somedaybitch.livejournal.com]

But the whole thing -- not just the playing ball scene, but the Starbuck and Helo on Caprica storyline at this point -- is rubbing me the wrong way. What the heck are they doing wandering the countryside without a plan and playing a game of pyramid?

well, they actually do have a plan. it was in the ep before...go find a transport and get off the planet.

re the game, it's just like the apartment...it's home. it's part of what they lost, what was taken from them. it's a reminder of where they came from and a bit of normalcy in a post-apocalyptic world.

[thevaliumsofalj.livejournal.com]

Where is their desperate urgency to get home and prevent disaster?

Even with a stop at her apartment, they were able to procure her vehicle to help get them where they needed to go faster. And where we've paused now, they were in a car, trying to get out of the city and then were in the process of deciding which military installation to hit to get a way off the planet when they ended up being ambushed by Anders and his crew. I'd personally define that as urgency to get off the planet and get home. *shrug* With anders and his 52 other people, they have a better chance of getting off the planet alive by using one of their assaults as the cover for them successfully leaving Caprica and delivering the arrow to the fleet.

And honestly, I don't think a full day has even passed since Starbuck got on planet. I'd say that they've been moving at a pretty quick click on Caprica, considering. I think in these 4 episodes, we've gone maybe 2 - 3 days on Galactica and 1 - 2 days on Caprica, even though we've been stuck in these situations for 4 weeks with them.

[desire-of-mind.livejournal.com]

good storytelling is equal parts the journey as much as the destination. the beauty is in the travelling.

I couldn't agree more with your entire post. I've read most of the reactions on Galactica News and that's probably the most sane statement that I've encountered thus far. We saw...ten, fifteen seconds of Anders, at the most? And people hate him because he is, what? Blocking the path to omgtheirloveissopure!karaandlee!...? What they see as a Lee!knockoff?

It's a little ridiculous. People need to chill out and let a story develop. Like you said, it's in the journey. The ending isn't as satisfying if there hasn't been turmoil and struggle and misread signals and other obstacles along the way.

[somedaybitch.livejournal.com]

I couldn't agree more with your entire post. I've read most of the reactions on Galactica News and that's probably the most sane statement that I've encountered thus far.

thanks. i'm fond of sane. fonder still of not deconstructing shows. let it play out and see what happens, in its totality. i can see where that's tough for a lot of folks in an episodic format, because you only get it piecemeal, but that's part of why i don't get uber invested in any given micro-aspect of a show.

We saw...ten, fifteen seconds of Anders, at the most? And people hate him because he is, what? Blocking the path to omgtheirloveissopure!karaandlee!...? What they see as a Lee!knockoff?

yes. exactly this.